That she is so called means that she got some interest in Susanna

The fresh new genealogists most of the consider this significant one Nicholas’ spouse Clementia are integrated right here since the, less than normal things, she’d not be said. When Susanna during the specific later time obtained out over another guardian, the latest wife of these guardian was not stated.

This would indicate that King John invested sometime truth be told there and you will the possibility of an amorous liaison which have Clementia can be found

Here are some the following is an idea complex by the specific eminent genealogists, however it is reasonable to declare that brand new findings are hotly competitive!

Which theory contributes to an excellent and you will interested ‘twist’ throughout the tale out of Joanna, that may attention admirers away from HBD!

At first glance, there would be absolutely nothing to strongly recommend one commitment within hostage, Susanna of Wales and Clementia, spouse away from Nicholas de Verdun. Although not, the feel of some genealogists which have overseas hostages, like youngsters, could have been that they had been have a tendency to placed that have family relations, if any have been offered.

Moving forward to 1236, there can be an entrance throughout the Tewkesbury annals and therefore pertains to Joanna’s mom given that “King Clemencie!” It checks out simply:

Today, it is known that mommy out-of Joanna was named Clementia (Clemence?

In this instance the new monk try obviously indulging into the gothic legalism. In advance of their own demise, Joanna is legitimised because of the Pope. Based on you to definitely legitimisation, the new Tewksbury monk evidently grabbed they upon themselves to raise Joanna’s mother on the status off Queen, because if her mother had been Queen John’s partner! It is true however, one to Queen John and you may Clementia was indeed never partnered. Because of the making reference to Joanna’s mom because “Queen” Clementia, brand new monk just who recorded Joanna’s demise is actually showing his extreme value for Joanna, although not attempting to change the correct circumstances.

When it comes to label regarding Clementia de- Verdun, Paget implies that she is actually the fresh new daughter regarding Roger de Dauntsey, out of Wiltshire. One to genealogist considers they high you to definitely Clementia regarded away from Wiltshire given that he has noticed that Queen John got a strong accessory so you can one to condition, they as the household out-of their safest partners, the fresh Longespee, ilies and you may Geoffrey Fitz Peter.

Genealogists have discovered that the name ‘Clementia’ try really rare certainly English noblewomen of this period. In one single table of women’s names that was gathered, there had been simply two events of one’s label “Clementia” out-of all in all, 1407 feamales in the newest test! The reality that someone named Clementia could be of the Susanna represents tall.

Very! The evidence are effective, however definitive, one inside the 1228, Susanna, once the an excellent hostage, received out to new care of her maternal grandmother, today partner away from Nicholas de Verdun!!

The newest Scottish genealogists of your own MacDuffs’ keep you to definitely Susanna ferch Llywelyn was given birth to 1214 inside the Gwynnedd, Wales and died c. 1259 within the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She married Malcolm MacDuff, Earl out of Fife within the 1230 along with a couple of children: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl out-of Fife, created 1245, died 1270 and you can MacDuff MacDuff born 1247.

Of course, there are restrict objections to which supposition! Queen John got of several mistresses and possibly as many as eight illegitimate pupils. The mother regarding Joanna would have been created circa 1172 and marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself was created circa 1191 (14 years old in the course of their particular marriage to Llywelyn). Rohese, the newest recognized genuine child regarding Nicholas de- Verdun and his partner Clementia was born circa 1210-1213. If the Clementia are mom out-of Joanna, she’d have their particular later 30’s, early 40’s whenever having a baby to Rohese! Not impossible, specific say, however, improbable.